[ioke-dev] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Tuples for Ioke

[Carlos Villela <cv@lixo.org>]

Sorry about the top posting, I'm on the phone.

Anyway, people have been abusing hashes in Ruby and tuples in Python  
for a while now. What can we learn from such abuses and in which ways  
purer languages have fixed those problems?

I'm not trying to be cheeky, just genuinely interested in peoples  
differing opinions on what this functionality should actually provide,  
given our past experience with similar (or otherwise) tools.

- cv

On 30 Apr 2009, at 20:57, Ola Bini <ola.bini@gmail.com> wrote:

> Sam Aaron wrote:
> > On 30 Apr 2009, at 20:35, Ola Bini <ola.bini@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > T W wrote:
> > > > If I may point out a slippery slope, treating tuples as records or
> > > > dicts is getting closer to having tuples follow the same rules as
> > > > passing parameters to a method. Think about it, you can't index  
> > > > into
> > > > your parameter list. They come through named, or, why not  
> > > > referenced
> > > > something like _1? The syntax is elegantly similar too.
> > > Don't agree at all. They are distinctly separate concepts - and  
> > > they also have very different intent.
> > > Finally, my proposal is that Record types only have names, and  
> > > Tuple types only have positions
> >
> > In this case what is the distinguishing differentiator between  
> > tuples and lists, is it only immutability?
> Immutability, no indexing, it's not Enumerable, its main purpose is  
> to be destructured.
>
> I'm waiting for someone to tell me why I'm wrong here... =)
>
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > > On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 12:54 AM, Ola Bini <ola.bini@gmail.com>  
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Martin Dobmeier wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > 2009/4/30 Ola Bini <ola.bini@gmail.com  
> > > > > > <mailto:ola.bini@gmail.com>>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  While we are at it, what about keyword tuples, or records?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  x = (foo: "123", bar: "321")
> > > > > >  x bar println
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  Not sure if it would be useful or not... Or if the overlap with
> > > > > >  dicts (and other objects) is to large.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hmm, given that Ioke won't treat tuples as containers at all  
> > > > > > and that it
> > > > > > even likes to discourage use of explicit indexing into a tuple  
> > > > > > by using
> > > > > > "ugly" syntax (hope I got you right there), the use of keyword  
> > > > > > arguments
> > > > > > would undermine that, wouldn't it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Btw, just noticed your tweet about tuples. You said that one  
> > > > > > shouldn't
> > > > > > even be able to index into a tuple. Should I remove that  
> > > > > > completely from the
> > > > > > prototype?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cheers, Martin
> > > > > The interesting thing I saw with records is that if you can  
> > > > > destructure them
> > > > > too, like this:
> > > > >
> > > > > (foo: aVar, bar: anotherVar) = (bar: 123, foo: 321)
> > > > >
> > > > > That could be pretty powerful.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Ola Bini (http://olabini.com) Ioke creator (http://ioke.org)
> > > > > JRuby Core Developer (http://jruby.org)
> > > > > Developer, ThoughtWorks Studios (http://studios.thoughtworks.com)
> > > > > Practical JRuby on Rails (http://apress.com/book/view/9781590598818 
> > > > > )
> > > > >
> > > > > "Yields falsehood when quined" yields falsehood when quined.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Ola Bini (http://olabini.com) Ioke creator (http://ioke.org)
> > > JRuby Core Developer (http://jruby.org)
> > > Developer, ThoughtWorks Studios (http://studios.thoughtworks.com)
> > > Practical JRuby on Rails (http://apress.com/book/view/9781590598818)
> > >
> > > "Yields falsehood when quined" yields falsehood when quined.
>
>
> --
> Ola Bini (http://olabini.com) Ioke creator (http://ioke.org)
> JRuby Core Developer (http://jruby.org)
> Developer, ThoughtWorks Studios (http://studios.thoughtworks.com)
> Practical JRuby on Rails (http://apress.com/book/view/9781590598818)
>
> "Yields falsehood when quined" yields falsehood when quined.